Doctor Who Discussion: The Valeyard, Morbius Doctors, Looms, Sylvester McCoy, Meryl Streep, and Hans Zimmer Weren’t in This Episode, But Somehow We Ended Up Talking About Them Anyway

Posted: November 29, 2015 by J.A. Prentice in Doctor Who Discussions, Uncategorized
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11138578_1247927988554559_2315524604860158231_nAfter watching Heaven Sent, the latest episode of Series 9 of Doctor Who, J.A. Prentice (JA) and Jaden C. Kilmer (JC) try to have a coherent discussion. Due to the shocking and stunning nature of the episode, this is more difficult than it would seem. Read more for their thoughts on the penultimate episode of this season…
Be warned, there are SPOILERS ahead!

JA: Did you see that?
JC:Im gonna need a minute…
 JA: I’m going to need a few billion years.
JC: I get the reference…
im drained
So… thoughts?
JA: Does our rating scale go up to 11?
JC: I dont know. Its broken.
JA: Yeah.
I had really high expectations.
And they were surpassed
JC: I dont know what I was expecting. I think it met my expectations, which were probably something like a 10 or 11
Im still processing
JA: So my recording ended a little abruptly. Was there anything after he said “The Hybrid is me.”?
JC: Not really. Just a dramatic music swell
JA: Then is it basically confirmed that he’s the Hybrid because he’s half-human on his mother’s side? (Editor’s note: For those who are not familiar with every episode of Doctor Who, shame on you. [Joking. Don’t be offended.] But seriously, this is a reference to the 1996 TV Movie where the Doctor and Master both said he was half-human. It was reviled almost universally by Doctor Who fans.)
I really hope so, just for the fanboy rage returning.
JC: I really hope that’s not it but I think so
JA: They’ve never adequately explained it away, so it was always there in the background just being ignored by everyone.
And now it’s back and I’m not even mad.
JC: I’m a little mad I guess. But I won’t hold that against the episode
JA: Redeeming the half-human thing as a major plot point is a stroke of genius. The only thing that could top it would be the Morris Doctors.
Darn autocorrect. Morbius.
JC: morbius doctors?
JA: In the classic Tom Baker episode, the Brain of Morbius, the Doctor engages Morbius in a mind duel. The faces flash back from Tom Baker to Pertwee to Troughton to Hartnell… and then go through eight more faces. While Morbius taunts the Doctor by saying “How long, Doctor? How long have you lived?” and “Back! Back to your beginning!”
Canon doesn’t know how to deal with it.
JC: Ohhh that’s right. I thought you were talking about the recent Mark Gatiss episode though
JA: That would be nowhere near insane enough for it to top half-human.
JC: I know which is why I was confused
but anyway on to the actual episode. How bout that score?
JA: Referring to the most stunning musical score in Doctor Who’s history?
I liked it.
JC: Sometimes it was a little too loud but yes it was fantastic.
I mean I liked everything but that was a particular highlight
JA: Agreed. That’s a sound mixing problem rather than a score problem, though.
But I need to buy that score when they release it.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt that strongly about needing to buy a soundtrack before.
JC: Can you do that? I was wondering if I could buy it as it aired
JA: Unfortunately, they don’t release the albums for a while.
But they do release them.Or they have for every other season since 2006, when they put 1 and 2 out together.
JC: I may do that then. Love murray gold
JA: Murray Gold is pretty amazing.
I have no idea why he isn’t scoring huge blockbuster films.
I’m glad he isn’t because he wouldn’t be able to do Doctor Who, but I’m confused as to why.
JC: I think hes really flying under the radar yeah. That and everyone just hires hans zimmer or his clones
JA: Zimmer is sometimes really good and sometimes really bland. It depends on the film.
But to stay on the subject of Doctor Who…
Yeah, this episode had a great score. I think just about every aspect of it was flawless.
I really loved the design of the castle.
JC: Man this is going to be the least interesting post ever, isn’t it?
because i just loved it all and you just loved it all
JA: I talked about the Morbius Doctors. That has to make it slightly interesting, right?
JC: slightly.
JA: I can bring in Looms if we want to get really crazy. (Editor’s Note: Capaldi Voice: Google it. It would take too long to explain.)
JC: Maybe the morbius thing is the future. so he went back through his past and looped around to the final incarnations
JA: That might work. I heard a theory that the Doctor was just BSing Morbius and making up fake memories and incarnations to buy himself time.
JC: I like mine more.
Oh! I found something I didnt like
JA: Go ahead so I can disagree.
JC: The skulls.
Capaldi is of italian ancestry, meaning his lower incisors would have a carabelli’s cusp on them.
the ones we saw, which were revealed to be him, did not
I guess you’re right?
That’s reaching an insane new level of nitpicking.
JC: Im really being facetious here.
I dont care if the skulls were anatomically correct lol
JA: I figured.
I really loved the TARDIS/Doctor’s head scenes.
JC: Very sherlocky
JA:That’s what I thought as well.
Especially calculating the fall.
JC: I’ll consider it a new sherlock episode so I can satisfy that part of me. I am confused about how this ep got a tv pg and the last one was tv 14
JA: And the only letter was L.
Because Jenna Coleman got to be the first person to say arse on Doctor Who.
JC: “oh no, your character said ass. You get a rating. The blood and death is cool though”
JC: Billie Piper is probably pissed though. She got to mouth it.
JA: Tom Baker’s probably even more pissed.
JC: did he come close to getting a cussword or is that just due to his real life potty mouth?
JA: Just his real life potty mouth.
I forget if Ace had swearing cut or if it was just references to her virginity, drinking, and innuendos that were cut.
The amount of adult things that were cut from the McCoy era is stunning. (Editor’s Note: None of these are made up. They were all real things that were in the scripts but cut.)
JC: Ace is my favorite classic companion and i havent seen a single one of her episodes
JA: Fix that.
JC: lol i may watch the mccoy era through… um… *nonstandard* ways. But dont they say his first episodes suck?
JA: My first hand experience confirms that they do.
Start with Remembrance of the Daleks.
JC: I will do that then
JA: Before I get off track talking about my favorite Doctor, I think this episode shows that Capaldi needs some kind of acting award.
Or every kind of acting award.
Just combine the Oscars and the BAFTAs and whatever else into one award and give it to Capaldi.
JC: not sure if he can win an oscar for a tv show. but he deserves to
JA: I’m pretty sure he can’t, but he should.
JC: Meryl Streep could.
Thats not me complimenting her though.
JA: I’ve just remembered my one complaint.
It’s not about the episode itself.
The BBC synopsis ended with something along the lines of “At the end, Gallifrey is waiting.”
Which really ruined what would have been the biggest surprise of the season for me.
Although there was still the Hybrid line.
JC: Ah. I saw someone on reddit saying “DONT READ THE SYNOPSIS FOR THE NEXT EPISODES” so I guess thats what they saw
I did not have it spoiled and freaked out
JA: Lucky you.
It was very annoying, even though I’d already predicted it was the Time Lords that grabbed him.
Of course, I was also convinced that the thing following him would be the Valeyard.
Because press stuff called it the Veil and I thought it would be a twist.
JA: That occurred to me.
I’m going with him.
Because Ashildr would be one hell of a letdown.
JC: I think it might be ashildr now. She seems more “hybrid” than he is, if we say they are going to continue ignoring the half human line
JA: It’s possible.
It just isn’t interesting.
JC: True. Would be a lot more interesting to have him be the guy
JA: Also, I don’t think Ashildr/Me is really threatening.
She mostly seems to be out of her depth. And just a human who heals and lives a long time.
JC: I think her second and third episodes made her quite an interesting character, but I guess she definitely doesnt seem like a big villain or anything
JA: Don’t get me wrong/ I like her. Just not as the big reveal of the terrible prophesied Hybrid that will bring Gallifrey to its knees.
That sounds more like the Doctor to me.
JC: especially sounds like 12
JA: Especially 12 right now.
I wonder if the ‘lightening up’ we saw of 12 this season was a set-up for how much worse he’d get when Clara died?
JC: I think its more that they figured out what they wanted to do with his personality while they were still figuring it out in 8
off topic, but this joke from reddit made me laugh: “so we got an arse and a bitch this series. I’d say we’re due a “sh!t” in series 10 but we already got sleep no more.”
JA: Ouch.
I like Sleep No More but I concede that that was funny.
JC: Yeah I wouldn’t call it sh!t but I still laughed. I think it may unfortunately get stuck with the short end of the stick, as the odd one out in an incredible series
I’d rather that fate go to the girl who died but the internet is going to say otherwise.
JA: I don’t understand the Internet love for The Girl Who Died. Both Mathieson and Gatiss are about equal for me, but the Internet’s decided Gatiss sucks and Mathieson’s awesome.
JC: Hell, I’D decided that but I just dont get it when it comes to TGWD.
JA: It feels like people decided that because they thought it was going to be good (Mathieson, Maisie Williams, and Vikings sound pretty awesome), it WAS good.
To make a brief summary of my favorite lines: “Tell them I came the long way round.” “I’m not afraid of Hell. Hell’s just Heaven for bad people.” “Clara told me not to take revenge. But you should know I don’t always listen.”
And the whole first part leading up the credits.
JC: I think my favorite line was “the power of triangles!”
I dont know why
JA: Pretty much everything Capaldi said was gold.
He talked to a door and made it epic and emotional.
JC: I was trying to think of other people who have played the doctor who couldve pulled this one off
I think Matt Smith could do it. But Im biased
JA: McGann definitely could. He’s done similar stuff with Big Finish, although not quite on the same scale.
I love McCoy but I’m not his Doctor would be suited to it.
I think Tom Baker might have pulled it off.
JC: But really not very many. It was so perfectly capaldi
JA: He’s simultaneously very human and very alien in a way that really makes it work.
JC: My one thing about capaldi though is he doesnt really feel like the same character as the other doctors to me
JA: Tennant and Smith feel a bit off to me, so it’s not Capaldi that’s wrong.
JC: They too whimsical to you?
JA: I’m not quite sure what it is.
And it’s only a little bit off.
More with Tennant than Smith, so it’s not the whimsy.
It’s just some kind of weird “it factor.”
Don’t get me wrong, I still really like them and I see them as the Doctor. It’s just sometimes I have difficulty seeing Tennant being the same person who was Hartnell and McCoy.
JC: You’ll make a lot of people cranky saying tennant doesnt feel right as a doctor lol
JA: That’s why I followed it up by “Don’t get me wrong…”
I like Tennant.
JC: You know how context works. People always ignore it
JA: True.
JC: Soooo we went way off course but there really isnt much to say about this episode. It was really really freaking good
JA: To get back to the episode, I did work out early on– when he said the creature needed ‘confession’– that he was in the confession dial. But the episode was so good I don’t actually care that twist seemed kind of obvious.
And yes, it was just really freaking good.
So this episode was just stunning, coming off another really great episode and managing to top that. If this pattern increases, I am not sure any human being will be able to withstand the level of quality. My face may melt, Raiders of the Lost Ark style. The only problem will be if it can’t maintain this incredible level of quality and the finale ends up being a let-down. 10/10 because technically an 11/10 isn’t possible.
JC: For me, this one probably catapults series 9 into first place for nuwho seasons, topping series 5. Everything you said. It kinda sorta broke my scale though. I think I give it a 63u80jr]]
Thats out of 10
JA: That sounds like a fair rating.
JC: Might be a bit underrated though
JA: Just a little bit
Join us next week for the Final Discussion of Series 9: Hell Bent. Will it live up to its predecessors and give us a face-melting spectacle? Or will it fall short of perfection? 

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